National Press Club newsmaker luncheon with General Michel Aoun, Lebanese Parliament Member
November 22, 2005
TOPIC: "THE NEW LEBANON: FROM LIBERATION TO REFORM"
MODERATOR: RICHARD DUNHAM, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB
LOCATION: THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB, WASHINGTON, D.C.

MR. DUNHAM: Good afternoon, and welcome to the National Press Club. My name is Rick Dunham. I'm White House correspondent for BusinessWeek Magazine and the 2005 president of the National Press Club.

I'd like to welcome club members and their guests in the audience today, as well as those of you watching on C-SPAN or listening on the National Press Club Radio Network. A video archive of today's luncheon is provided by ConnectLive and is available to Press Club members only through the Press Club website, www.press.org. Press Club members can also access free transcripts of the luncheons on the website. Nonmembers may purchase transcripts, videotapes or audiotapes by calling 888-343-1940. And for more information about joining the Press Club, you can contact us at 202-662-7511.

If you have any questions for our speaker, please write them on the card provided at your table and pass them up toward me. I'll ask as many as time permits.

Before introducing our head table, I'd like to remind the audience of some of our future speakers. On December 1st, Edward G. Rendell, the governor of Pennsylvania and the former mayor and district attorney of my hometown of Philadelphia, will discuss "An American Energy Harvest Plan: Jobs, Prosperity, Independence." On December 7th, Paul Wolfowitz, the president of the World Bank, will be our guest. And on December 15th, Petra Nemcova, supermodel and tsunami survivor, will be the speaker.

I'd now like to introduce our head table guests next, and ask them to stand briefly when their names are called. Please hold your applause until all head table guests are introduced. From your right: Joseph Grabowski of the Institute on Religion and Policy; Ben Barber, former Washington Times State Department bureau chief, and since 2002 senior writer at the U.S. Agency for International Development; Joyce Karam, Al Hayat Arabic daily newspaper; Sumana Chatterjee, deputy director of communications at Women for Women International; Tony Haddad (sp), advisor to our speaker and volunteer based in D.C.; Hoda Tawfik, Washington correspondent for Al-Ahram Egyptian daily newspaper; Gibran Bastille (ph), advisor to our speaker, volunteer based in Beirut; John Hughes of Bloomberg News, the vice chair of the National Press Club Speakers Committee.

Skipping over our speaker, Dipka Bhambhani, the associate editor of Platts and the National Press Club Speakers Committee member who organized today's event -- thank you, Di -- we have F. Yuakhim Farhat (ph), advisor and volunteer to our speaker, based in Ukraine; Salameh Nemat, Washington Bureau chief of al-Hayat; Jeffrey B. St. Onge, reporter for Bloomberg News; and Rod Kukrow (ph), news editor for Platts.

Today we welcome a speaker who's one of the most important political figures in the Middle East. Michel Aoun is president of the Free Patriotic Party, a former prime minister, and a former commanding general of the Lebanese army. Our guest is a member of the Lebanese parliament, where he provides a megaphone for the pent-up frustration of many Lebanese people for years of Syrian and French occupation.

General Aoun's visit to the National Press Club today falls on the 62nd anniversary of Lebanese independence from France, and it's been six months since Syria withdrew its troops from Lebanon. Many Middle East watchers say the former prime minister played a part in that withdrawal. As leader of the opposition movement, he consistently advocated the end of Syria's involvement in Lebanon's government affairs.

General Aoun headed the Lebanese army as its commanding general, and entered politics in September 1988, when he was named prime minister and effective head of state by Lebanon's outgoing president, Amin Gemayel. Prime Minister Aoun was explicit in his opposition to Syria's control of Lebanon, repeatedly vowing to free the country from foreign domination. His government tried to reestablish legitimate authority of the Lebanese state by wrestling it from the hands of the private sectarian militias and occupying forces that had decimated the country. However, after Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iraq (sic/Kuwait) in 1990, the United States permitted Syria to occupy Lebanon after the Syrian government sided with the U.S. in the first Gulf War. How times have changed.

Between 1991 and May 2005, our guest was exiled to France, where he led the opposition movement that ultimately resulted in the eviction of Syrian forces and the restoration of sovereignty. The former prime minister returned on May 7th, 2005, following the withdrawal of the Syrian army and following the February 14th, 2005 assassination of another former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri. He supports a thorough investigation into the role of the Syrian government in that assassination.

A Maronite Catholic, Michel Aoun was born in 1935 in a mixed Muslim-Christian suburb south of Beirut. His friendships crossed religious lines: quote, "We never distinguished between Ali and Pierre, or between Hassan and Michel." He's been quoted as saying "We ate together and slept at each other's houses." He attended the College Des Freres; received additional training at Chalons-sur- Marnes; Fort Sill, Oklahoma; and Ecole Superieure de Guerre.

Today, as leader of the Free Patriotic Party, our guest favors a party platform which seeks to appeal across religious lines. Though his party was only weeks old during the elections and he had just returned home, the Free Patriotic Party won 21 seats in the parliamentary elections, including nearly all the seats in the Christian heartland of Mt. Lebanon.
The former prime minister has spoken out against corruption in government and politics, demanding that, regardless of a government official's office title or religion, they must be principled and follow the law and constitution of the country. He says he will strengthen the rule of law, reform the judiciary and promote good governance.

He's also advocated a media that is free from government and political controls, something that would be indeed rare in the Middle East.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Michel Aoun. (Applause.)

MR. AOUN: Ladies and gentlemen, it is a great honor for me to speak at the National Press Club here in Washington. I want to thank you for this opportunity, and also thank the American people for their support in Lebanon's struggle for freedom.
On a personal level, it's most moving and symbolic for me to be here. Why? Because this is not just the greatest press club in the world, but it is a symbol of press freedom in the world's strongest democracy. And freedom and democracy are core values I have fought and struggled for in my country for over 30 years.

Today is an important day for the people of Lebanon; it's independence day. And even though we are not yet a fully sovereign country, we have moved closer to that dream in recent months. I want to thank the internationally community, led by the United States and the Lebanese around the world, who stood by us in this long struggle. I am very proud of what we have achieved and what this day will mean when we consolidate our independence and when democracy has taken hold across the entire Middle East.

To become truly free, we need to deal with the issues left behind after 15 years of occupation: a paralyzed system of government, weak and corrupt state institutions, a judiciary that is neither impartial nor accountable, a national debt of at least 200 percent of our GDP. And our borders are still subject to infiltration on one side and conflict on the other side, as seen yesterday.

As we have seen, political leaders and your fellow journalists who ask unwelcome questions have been assassinated. The middle class has been destroyed. Poverty is rampant. Even though the Syrian army's now gone, most Lebanese still feel as if they are living under occupation. The same political environment which corrupt our system under occupation has not changed. Neither reform nor security seem to be priorities of the current government in post- occupation Lebanon.

We are at an impasse. But despite its complexity, my country is a place that the United States should care about because Lebanon is key to the epic struggle between freedom and terror. In Iraq and Afghanistan, in the burning neighborhoods of Paris, in Madrid, in London -- and London, and the horror of 9/11, we have seen how this battle between the forces of freedom and the forces of darkness are taking shape. And we have seen how many sacrifices have been made to create democracy in our part of the world, but democracy cannot be successful in the Middle East unless it is successful in Lebanon.

In Iraq you are planting a seed of democracy in barren soil. In Iraq you are -- but in Lebanon, democracy is already deeply rooted even though it was cut off from sunshine and watered by occupation. Lebanon is the one place in the Middle East where democracy can flourish in the near-term. In Lebanon we have been electing our own government since the turn of the century. Women have had equal rights since the foundation of the Lebanese state. The culture of democracy does not have to be created in Lebanon, to the contrary, because it's inherent in our characters. Therefore, if democracy fails in Lebanon, it can never succeed in Iraq or elsewhere in the Middle East.

If we are going to defeat the quest of bin Laden and Zarqawi, if we are to replace the culture of terrorism with a culture of openness and pluralism, we must show a Middle Eastern democracy can work, and Lebanon is the best chance. But we have serious problems, and a genuine democracy will not come to Lebanon if the world turns its back.

What is wrong with our democracy today? A few examples: even though the Syrian army had left our neighborhood, they left behind an electoral law which they imposed to favor their allies. This twisted the results of the first post-occupation election and led to our party being denied at least half of the seats we deserve and underrepresentation of mainstream views. This is not genuine democracy. And then there is the rampant practice of buying votes. We were the first political party in the history of Lebanon to run on a platform and to raise funds instead of buying votes like others. And believe it or not, even after 15 years of occupation and systematic corruption, we were the only party to call for reform.

What are the reforms and changes we are calling for to bring genuine democracy to Lebanon? I believe there are three keys to success. I call them the three D's -- democracy, disarmament and development. First, democracy. This must include the components of true egalitarian, pluralistic and free societies: a constitution that cannot be changed on a whim, a corruption-free system of government that follows the rule of law and is accountable, a transparent political process, an independent judiciary, a free press, and a free and fair election.

Second, disarmament of all nongovernment-armed groups, done in a way to reflect political reality. This way we can reunify the country and restore ????? decision-making to the state. Hezbollah has real backing from the Shi'ites, and is a political force, but it is time to beat swords (into) plowshares and for them to become part of making Lebanon a great country again and a beacon of modernity in the Middle East. Along with disarmament, the Lebanese military and security forces must be restructured to modernize our forces to combat the terrorists.

Third, development must happen alongside democracy and disarmament, in order to address our pressing economic issues, such as the debt burden. We need to establish the basics of a functioning market economy to spark economic growth and create jobs and hope: privatization, membership in the World Trade Organization, restructuring the bloated bureaucracy, and fiscal reform.

Democracy, disarmament and development are possible and are possible soon in Lebanon. The people are hungry for these reforms and to be fully part of the modern world. They want Beirut to once again be called "the Paris of the Middle East."

The Lebanese are looking for renewal. They are willing to go the extra mile with trustworthy leadership with a clear vision and a reform program for Lebanon.

The party that I lead, the Free Patriotic Movement, had this vision, as I have described. Our success has been amazing, despite all the challenges we faced.

After fleeing for my life from Syrian forces in 1990, I lived in exile in France for 15 years. I returned home in May and was met by 400,000 supporters. We had less than a week to choose our candidates for parliament, and our subsequent victories were a shock to the political elite.

Our success has continued since the elections. In the last three political polls asking Lebanese citizens what political party most closely represents their views, the Free Patriotic Movement was the hands-down winner, by double-digit margins. The second-place parties got less than half of our support.

Our website is the most popular in the country, getting (45 unique ?) hits a day. This success came about because the Lebanese people would no longer stand for old days of assassinations, corruption, terrorists and brutality, because Lebanon wants democracy.

Our party cherishes the same values as free societies. We are pluralistic and secular. We are a party of Lebanese, not a party just for Christians or Shi'ites or Sunnis or Jews.

All are part of our movement, and Shi'ites, Sunnis and Christians in our party are now in peace.

We ask the international community to help us create the economic conditions so that democracy is not an abstract concept, but a complete positive reality for every Lebanese citizen. Democracy and development must go hand in hand because democracy without development will fail because people need to feed their families. And development without democracy will also fail because the old system of bribery and corruption that has plagued Lebanon will grow again. Lebanon is a country without oil or natural resources to anchor an economy, but we are a country of great ingenuity and human capital.

The first ships ever built were made in Byblos. Lebanon gave the world many gifts such as the alphabet and tabouleh. (Laughter.) The Lebanese diaspora makes contributions all over the world, and Lebanese Americans include everyone from Senator George Mitchell to Shakira, Helen Thomas to Salma Hayek, from General John Abizaid to the universally-loved poet Khalil Gibran. So we have the ability to build a true democracy.

An effective government in Lebanon will not only serve the interests of Lebanon, but also the interests of the United States and the international community in advancing democracy and fighting terrorists. Conversely, the failure to ensure political stability and security and to promote genuine democracy in Lebanon will have a tremendously negative impact first in the region, then in Europe and finally here in the United States.

In 2003, when I testified before Congress, I said the true nature of the Lebanese is a love of freedom and an affection for America. Today this affection is joined with gratitude. The American people helped us achieve our dream of (revelation ?) by enacting the Syria Accountability and Lebanese Sovereignty Restoration Act and for sponsoring crucial United Nations resolution.

We fought valiantly for the liberation of our beloved Lebanon. We never lost hope that our natural allies in the free world would see our fight for what it truly was -- a fight for freedom against terrorists and oppression.

I come before you today to tell you that our quest for a stable and modern democracy will be pursued with as much passion as was our quest for liberation. As we mark Lebanese independence day, we have much work to do to consolidate a real independence day, a true democracy in our land. So I ask you -- do not forget Lebanon. Help us make our independence day a year from today the first one in many decades when Lebanon is truly free.

Thank you. (Applause.)

MR. DUNHAM: Great. Thank you very much.

Press coverage of Lebanon in the United States is sorely lacking, and I was wondering if you can answer a basic question. Can you describe the state of internal security within the country, the state of the militias that exist today and how widely armed different sectarian groups are?

(Note: Mr. Aoun's responses are through an interpreter, unless indicated otherwise.)

MR. AOUN: Regarding the internal security situation in Lebanon, of course there are still armed groups -- Lebanese and Palestinians alike. However, the security situation right now is stable. We would like, however, to resolve the situation by basically taking the weapons away from all these groups.

MR. DUNHAM: What concrete steps, other than the disarming, can be taken to overcome the sectarian differences that exist in Lebanon today to build an effective, functional democracy?

MR. AOUN: As a patriotic movement in Lebanon, we have basically organized ourselves as a party and provided the antidote to sectarianism by adopting a secular platform.

MR. DUNHAM: Now the country has a lot of rebuilding still to do. How do you rebuild the country and create economic growth, create jobs, create the vibrant economy that once existed? And how long will it take to reduce the national debt to a manageable level? Twice the gross national product is not a manageable level of debt.

MR. AOUN: Okay. Regarding the economic situation in Lebanon, we do have a program to adopt, which I have discussed in my address. They are basically based on four points: privatization, the first one; the membership in the World Trade Organization being the second one; restructuring the bloated bureaucracy is the third; and fiscal reform being the fourth point.

However, these measures do require certain sacrifices from the Lebanese people. But if people do trust the government, the Lebanese have given many lives for the sake of their country, so if there is trust in their government, they would be willing to make financial sacrifices for the sake of Lebanon.

And we think with these four measures, we can bring back prosperity to Lebanon, and Lebanon can go become part of the world community and trade community and would be on the road to recovery.

MR. DUNHAM: How can Lebanon become completely free from Syria? Is that a -- is it a possibility to be independent and secure?

MR. AOUN: Of course this is something that has been achieved right now. But given the relationship, the proximity of the two countries, there is a situation here that will have to be looked at. There are common rights, for example, having to do with water, and also the security of the common borders. And there are also economic interests and business and commercial exchanges. And also, there are transit routes from Lebanon to other Arab countries. But that will be completed when there will be an exchange of embassies, an embassy in Lebanon and an embassy in Syria representing diplomatically, fully both countries.

MR. DUNHAM: Okay, another question reflecting the lack of comprehensive coverage of Lebanon. What, if any, of Syria's army is still left in the country? And if the army has left, is there any residue, whether it's armaments or intelligence officers or other things, that the Lebanese government will need to deal with?

MR. AOUN: There's no doubt that the military influence of Syria in Lebanon has come to an end, that is when it comes to the army presence. But they still have individuals who are working with them, and this is something that we are going to be dealing with as time go by and by taking the necessary measures.

MR. DUNHAM: We have a question from a reporter for the Kuwait News Agency. What is the purpose of your trip to Washington, D.C., and which U.S. officials have you met with or are you planning to meet with?

MR. AOUN: The purpose of my coming to visit Washington, to the United States, is to exchange ideas and discuss issues that pertain to the relationship between both countries, as well as the situation in the Middle East, given the fact that there are strong ties that bind Lebanon, you know, to the region.

I have met with a number of members of the Congress of the United States, and senators, the National Security Council, and I'm having meetings also at the Department of State, as well as meetings with members of the press, in addition to the one I'm having with you here today.

MR. DUNHAM: We have a question that was e-mailed in from Coral Gables, Florida, and the person wants to know: Do you agree with current U.S. policies in Lebanon, Iraq and the region? And do you believe in the importance of Lebanon -- I think you talked about this a little -- as a battleground in the war against terror?

MR. AOUN: I think I have addressed this issue pretty well in the remarks that I've given, and -- but of course I do agree with the United States on the concept of spreading democracy in the region, respect for human rights and civil liberties. And this is part of the reason why I came here to make these -- have these discussions here in the United States.

MR. DUNHAM: Part of the discussion of democracy, as enunciated by the Defense secretary of the United States, is regime change in the Middle East. One of the reporters for Al Hayat would like to know if you've discussed the issue of regime change in Syria with any U.S. officials or congressmen.

And someone in the audience would like to know if Lebanon can build a good -- good and balanced relations with Syria in light of the Syrian Bashar regime, that is by nature undemocratic?

MR. AOUN: There is no question that what happens in Syria has an impact directly on Lebanon, and I think I have talked a little bit about this issue. And as you recall, when President Bashar Assad made his speech, which was very badly received, had negative reactions to it, of course we rejected what was said there. And we ask again for truly the spread of freedom and democracy. And wish also our -- you know, the Syrian people democracy and freedom as well.

MR. DUNHAM: What is the single-most important thing the United States can do to further democracy in Lebanon? And are you specifically seeking either economic aid or military assistance from the United States?

MR. AOUN: We think that the policies adopted by the United States so far have been excellent. They've led, you know, to the necessary political change -- of course, in addition to that, the international resolutions that were championed by the United States.

No question that the United States can provide a lot of assistance, technical assistance, at all levels. However, our discussions here did not focus on the details of such assistance, but rather to discuss the pursuit continuing the current policy that will ultimately produce the kind of democracy and change that we are seeking for Lebanon and the region.

MR. DUNHAM: There are several questions about the current Lebanese government. Does the current government have the ability to enact either their own reforms or your reforms into law? And does the current government have any kind of reform platform?

MR. AOUN: The way things look right now, it looks like there is no apparent program for such reforms. In fact, to the contrary, this is not a homogeneous government. We don't see the solidarity that exists within this government. In other words, there is no signal at all that shows that such a program is being implemented.

And we doubt that they do have the expertise or the will to put together such a program.

MR. DUNHAM: In the United States, public opinion polls show a lack of trust in government. I was wondering, to go to Lebanon, is there a lack of trust in government and in public institutions? And what can be done to build trust, so that people will be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to turn around the economy and build democracy?

MR. AOUN: When the Lebanese people feel that they're the ones who are able to bring the person to the position of authority, that they're the ones who are choosing, then they can have the trust in that kind of government.

However, this -- the current government is the government is the government that has been responsible for all the tragedies that have befallen Lebanon so far, and you cannot simply do a change of people without a change of policies or a change of policies within change of people. Both are necessary.

MR. DUNHAM: Another question that was e-mailed to us. Do you see a change in behavior of the pro-Syrian parties like Hezbollah and leaders like Emile Lahud since the release of the United Nations report? And what steps can we expect Lebanese leaders to take regarding the disarmament of terrorist groups in the country?

MR. AOUN: Until now there is no change in the policy either regarding President Lahud or Hezbollah. They are still following the same continuing policy that they've had of partnership. This must come to an end. The government would have to bring all the Lebanese together around a common policy and a common program. This abnormal situation must cease.

MR. DUNHAM: We have a number of questions about your own political future and the platform. I'll start with two of them that are related. Not having the majority of members in parliament, how will ensure that you become the next president of Lebanon? And why do you think you are the best candidate to be the next president?

MR. AOUN: First of all, I haven't said to anyone that I was the best one. (Laughs.) I contest basically what is happening. I believe there is here -- there's no majority. The majority of Lebanese they're talking about is not really a majority. The gerrymandering that has taken place -- the gerrymandering of the law, I definitely contest. And I tell you that the whole constitutional project is basically at a halt because of the way they're dealing with those 11 seats. Everything is basically stalled.

MR. DUNHAM: What can you do to create this kind of political reform? You talked about gerrymandering and electoral reform. What can you do as a member of the parliament? What can you do as a party to bring about that kind of change when you don't have political control in the country right now?

MR. AOUN: We have presented a program and a proposal to have basically a new electoral law, and to revise completely the existing one. It seems that it is getting some support. And I think if this were not to take place, the pressure coming from the people will be enough and sufficient to force that change.

MR. DUNHAM: You spoke about how your party's platform mentions the importance of women in the political process. What are you doing to promote women's equality and rights in the building of a strong democracy in Lebanon?

MR. AOUN: We respect the equality between men and women, and the charter of the Free Patriotic Movement obviously highlights that. And we are working on -- and our aim is -- to change all existing laws that do discriminate between men and women -- against women.

MR. DUNHAM: You have a power-sharing arrangement among Muslims and Christians. How is the power-sharing arrangement working, and how do you think it can be improved?

MR. AOUN: We believe that the change that is needed, you know, for the democracy is to basically change the relationship that exists right now.

What you have is agreements between sectarian groups. We'd like to transform this situation into agreements between political parties. And in other words, growing the concept of the citizen and the relationship of the citizen and the party. And then, at this stage, at that moment, the relationship between the citizen and the state and the country will be based on that, rather than on the sectarian concessional, you know, bases.

MR. DUNHAM: We have another e-mailed question coming from Miami, and that is: How are you planning on getting rid of corruption that, unfortunately, has become endemic in the Lebanese government at all levels?

MR. AOUN: You know, this goes to the core of the subject, and it is really the most difficult issue that we are facing, the reason being is that the officials who are in place, you know, have been the people responsible for this.

I think what we need is really an audit. We need to have a thorough audit and determine where the monies have been spent, mismanagement of funds, et cetera. The issue and the difficulty that we are facing is that right now there is no acceptance for the demand for such an audit. And the government is refusing to have such a process take place.

MR. DUNHAM: Given Lebanon's history, what do you think is the appropriate place or role of religion in a modern democratic Lebanon?

MR. AOUN: We consider that religions have divine messages to humanity. And the main focus, really, of everything is how to make the human being, the human condition better. When religions -- and religions do provide an inspirational message for that. As long as the focus is on that, and to have -- develop a code of ethics and values, that's what we're asking for.

MR. DUNHAM: Someone in the audience would like to know if you think the Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps should become Lebanese citizens.

MR. AOUN: I don't believe this is possible for several reasons. First of all, because Lebanon has a very high density; we're talking about 367 per square kilometers, which is the sixth ranking in the world. And Lebanon has preserved its population equilibrium balance with integration for more than 200 years until today. And today around the world there are about 17 million people of Lebanese descent because we don't have the resources to keep them.

The other point is that the Palestinians did not integrate. And those Arab countries where -- that could absorb basically those -- they have more people and they have more resources at their disposal. And the Arab countries which have basically helped to --

(Mr. Aoun speaks in English to correct the interpreter.) No, no, the international community.

INTERPRETER: Oh, the international community, which has helped the establishment of the state of Israel -- thank you -- establish the state of Israel, can assist also in the absorption of those people.

MR. DUNHAM: And my last question about Lebanese politics is also the last e-mail question. This one comes from Texas and it's signed Charles, not George. It says: If you become president, how do you plan to tackle the issue of Hezbollah's weapons, and what is a satisfactory outcome? Be specific, please, as we have heard ambiguous answers for this question from many others.

MR. AOUN: Regarding Hezbollah, Hezbollah is going to have to make a political decision and integrate itself politically because Hezbollah has support. And the fears that Hezbollah is raising and using as an excuse for not giving up or disarming, those fears we are able and capable of having -- of dissipating them. And with the assistance and support of the international community, and given the national unity within our country, and the availability of our own Lebanese security resources, we are able to do that and secure the sovereignty and independence of the country.

MR. DUNHAM: We have three questions about the diaspora. What is the role of the diaspora in the democratic process? What can Americans of Lebanese descent, many of whom do not speak Arabic, do to help Lebanon? And is the Lebanese diaspora united and organized to lobby their country or Capitol Hill, and also to get more press coverage?

MR. AOUN: The Lebanese diaspora has provided an extraordinary contribution to Lebanon and to where we are here today, and that is getting Lebanon out of the occupation.

And for those in the diaspora who have preserved their Lebanese identity, the proposal that we have put forth forward regarding the reforms of the electoral law would allow them to participate politically in the process.

They of course can assist us in very practical ways. They can provide support to their families in Lebanon. They can come themselves and visit Lebanon. Even if it is once a year, you know, come and visit, you know.

MR. DUNHAM: Now someone just passed this up from the head table, so it must be an important reporter question. How about the right of return for refugees?

MR. AOUN: There is an international resolution regarding this subject matter. It is U.N. Resolution 194. Of course, we call for the implementation of such resolution.

And if the Palestinians themselves agree to a different kind of solution as a result of their negotiations with Israel, they must know that we in Lebanon are unable to absorb Palestinians and then basically force Lebanese into immigrating, which means they need to get assistance. They will have to assist them to find another place.

MR. DUNHAM: When you first went into exile in France, did you think that you would be there as long as you ended up being there? And were you ever concerned when the time got longer that you would never be able to return to Lebanon in your lifetime?

MR. AOUN: You know every day that I spent in exile I thought that I would be one day closer, you know, to coming back to Lebanon, and you know, 15 years went by, but you know time was not a factor for me. I had made a decision, and the decision was to really fight for the liberation of my country. And I had made a vow to myself that if I were to die, I would not be interred unless it is in a free Lebanon. (Applause.)

MR. DUNHAM: I'm trying to squeeze in as many questions before we run out of time. One of the reporters just asked, did you discuss the issue of Lebanese political prisoners in Syria with American officials?

MR. AOUN: This is an issue in fact that is (a file ?) raised by an institution in Lebanon called SOLIDE. We support SOLIDE efforts. We've supported SOLIDE since its inception. And of course, here with our talks, whenever we're discussing the -- with officials human rights conditions, we do raise this issue.

MR. DUNHAM: And before I ask my final question, I'd like to present you with a certificate of appreciation for appearing here today and the National Press Club mug. (Laughter.) (Applause.)

MR. AOUN: (In English.) Thank you.

MR. DUNHAM: The final question sent up by a Lebanese-American in the audience. Should we change our independence day to March 14th or April 27th when the Syrians stopped occupying Lebanon? (Applause.)

MR. AOUN: I don't think right now we're going to, you know, play or mess with the date. I believe future generations of Lebanese will determine -- will look at the situation and will determine, you know, whether that date remains or any other date is to be selected.

MR. DUNHAM: I'd like to thank General Aoun for being here today.

Thanks to all of you for coming.

Thanks to Press Club staff members: Howard Rothman, Jo Anne Booze, Melinda Cooke for organizing today's luncheon.

And we're adjourned. (Applause.)